Has anyone used Backendless?

Has anyone used Backendless with WeWeb? If so, was curious about the LOI to set it up. I haven’t seen a plugin for it.

Used Xano as my first no-code backend and I love the design/UX - but their pricing is pretty all or nothing . The first paid plan starts at $100/month. Backendless seems more reasonable with scaling charging based on how many users you actually have.

Performance with Xano has not been great for me in practice with the free plan - lots of 429/rate limit errors. With the limit being 10 API requests/20 seconds, seems like performance will be very bad for any concurrent users.

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Xano’s rape pricing for basically any feature is why I probably will never use it, even tho everyone is pushing it hard. Don’t think I hate it Imo it’s a pretty cool piece of software.

You might like Fastgen, I think there is even @mike-fastgen from Fastgen personally on the forum, he could tell you more about it. I really think Fastgen is >>>>> Xano, especially in features and UX.

Xano is just like buying a golden desert eagle to shoot yourself in the foot. It’s flashy, handles heavyweight stuff, and looks nice, but it’s like bubble, ugly and expensive.

Everytime I turn Xano on, with intentions of learning it, I turn it off in like 20 minutes, cuz I hit a paywall, or it’s just too ugly/poor UX.

ahahah rape pricing is exactly the phrase for it. Fastgen looks dope - thanks for the rec!

Bubble might be some of the worst software I’ve ever used. Like nails on a chalkboard.

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First, I think it is completely inappropriate to call Xano’s pricing structure “rape pricing”. Such language is insensitive and demeaning, and I believe it’s important that we maintain a respectful tone in our discussions.

I think that all members of the community who follow along with backend discussions know that @Broberto is not a fan of Xano and that he is probably biased regarding that point :wink:

BTW: We prefer Supabase as well but see the benefits of Xano.

Regarding the actual question: While I don’t have experience with Backendless, I am sure it is possible to integrate it. You can connect to anything that has an API. But you would need to handle the authentication yourself, as you’ve already seen, Backendless is not available as a plugin. But this is also the case with Fastgen.

You could also take a look at Supabase. For the basic functions, you don’t need a lot of coding.

Sorry, but I see no benefits, just pain and excessive milking of money out of people in exchange for poor UX and non intuitive experince. Sorry. The only supposed benefit is speed of putting the stuff together, which for me is incomprehensive also due to poor UX and getting paywalled on every step.

There are pros and cons to every solution. Here is what I like about Xano:

  • Easy branching possible
  • ISO 27001 compliant
  • SOC 2 compliant
  • No rate limits for APIs
  • More fine-grained security possible
  • If you want to enrich your data right when you post it to the database, you can do so by changing the function stack of the API call. In Supabase, you have to do that with trigger functions.
  • Complete control over the authentication flow
  • Complete control over the API calls

Comparing a BaaS to a DB (primarily) like Supabase is not really a comparison, if you really wanted, you can make your own middleware for everything you mentioned. But I get your point, might be easier.

Imo Xano is still very bad.

I’d just like to clarify, I’m not a Supabase diehard fan, they suck too at some things. But I think Fastgen might be a better alternative, pricewise and also UX and feature wise.

I’d be afraid that Xano becomes the bubble of Backends. Let’s face it, bubble is not the fan’s favorite :joy:

@Max thanks, taking a deeper look at Supabase as well! Kinda mindlessly plugged in Xano to try and should have really done a deep dive into the space before going too far.

It’s actually interesting signal that not many here are using backendless :skull:

agree with @Broberto that Xano’s paywall is pretty annoying - the rate limiting on the free plan makes it close to unusable imo. I guess I understand paywalling JS, but it would be friendlier they just scaled cost with load.

If any WeWeb team members see this, submitting my vote for plugins for a more cost friendly no-code backend! The total WeWeb + Xano sub is a lot to spend on a side project/no code experiment and I doubt I’m the only user trying no code for the first time with WeWeb.

Ok off to redo at least part of my backend fml :smiling_face_with_tear:

Ok quick recap of what I found as a newbie to no code. In case people with the same problem come across this post later and are making a similar decision!

tl;dr going to try fastgen.

WeWeb plugin supported:

  1. Supabase - a heavier weight service. I can’t imagine anyone without a coding background wanting to use this. However if you do code, it seems like it would be a nice timesaver that affords a lot of control over things. Has vector storage for AI things. Pricing is pretty granular and scales with how much you are using it.

  2. Google sheets - might be a bit janky to use but pretty friendly in terms of free stuff if you just need simple storage. 3000 requests per minute allowed; compared to Xano’s 60 per minute. Storage limit per sheet is 5M cells.

Strapi and Airtable are significantly more expensive compared to both.

No WeWeb plugin:

  1. Fastgen - Seems like a similar species to Xano; true no code backend, but unlike Xano does not paywall code, and even allows you to use python on the free plan! Paid plans start at $15/month. Trying this one next. Fastgen is also a YC company, hoping the WeWeb team might consider adding plugins for this one in the future :eyes:

  2. Backendless - pricing is friendly but at first glance, UI did not look great. Landing page has somewhat stodgy big co clients. Lost interest and decided not to go further.

Wondering if you had a chance to try Fastgen?

My struggle with no-code backends has been the amount of clicks it takes just to set up an endpoint to insert, read, and delete data.

I’ve been working on a low-code/no-code API service project of my own, and was hoping to get some feedback from the community here to see if it would be of any interest to use with weweb.

My idea is simple: you give a JSON schema, which specifies the shape and validation of your fields, and you get a simple create, read, update, and delete endpoint.

Fastgen also has some “json validation”, which I like. But I didn’t like all the clicks, control flows, etc. I had to setup as well.

So a todo API would look something like this:

{
  "$schema": "http://json-schema.org/draft-07/schema#",
  "title": "Todo",
  "type": "object",
  "properties": {
    "title": {
      "type": "string"
    },
    "completed": {
      "type": "boolean"
    },
    "dueDate": {
      "type": ["string", "null"],
      "format": "date"
    }
  },
  "required": ["title", "completed"]
}

And you would be up and ready to go. I also have view for manual data entry, and a records view to review data.

The only downside to my idea, is all the data relationships would have to be embedded in the single schema. But if people don’t often have the requirement of complex relationships, then maybe it would work? What sort of use cases do you have?

If you import ajv into Fastgen via their custom code-block running NodeJS you can set up your own middleware to validate the structure, then it’s like a few lines of code.

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I am using Buildship together with Supabase. I love it because:

  • It has Supabase natively integrated (for both triggers and nodes) along with Stripe, Sendgrid and a bunch of other services
  • It has a great AI tool that crates nodes in workflows and with some prompt engineering they are very effective

The starter plan is $25/mo

That’s pretty cool. You don’t even need to go that far, because the “validation” tab as part of the route itself already schema validation built in. But for custom/more granular validation, that’s great!

My app is definitely more simple, in that all you need is JSON schema and the API + docs + database gets generated with that alone.

I’m planning on launching in February, I’ll send you guys a link if you’re interested. I’ll try integrating it with weweb to see how that goes.

I mean, CRUD is only a part of what Fastgen does. And if your app ends at CRUD, then I see very limited utility, but hey, I definitely will try your app out :slight_smile:

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Haha great point, and I appreciate your feedback.

I haven’t explored all the features, but I do like how Fastgen has complex workflows. But there are so many other tools out there that probably do it better (zapier etc.).

Having a system that does multiple things well, versus tying in multiple systems that do a single thing really well, is what it boils down to. But of course those options both come with a big list of pros and cons!

I ended up not using Fastgen because of the way cost scales with api logic. Felt like cost would get sky high quickly.

Ended going with Supabase + coded server with a few endpoints. Very happy with this solution but would love to give yours a try when you launch.

These kinds of no-code tools are such a timesaver and really great to see more options in the mix.

Interesting combination Buildship+Supabase for logic and data.

I still need to play around with it, but I am also thinking about how to position buildship in comparison to the Weweb Supabase Plugin.

For example, Should I perform CRUD actions through buildship or should I just use the Supabase plugin in Weweb for this, to use buildhsip for logic/businesses ruling based on database triggers?

Or does this depend on the complexity of the CRUD action, like validating inputs or business rules or making calculation before or after the CRUD operation at hand?